Forum topic: Frank chat input - hard to read in the chat, and out of sight to fast

copy pasted from the chat

Frank Van Laere:

While I appreciate the comments, I still fail to see the reasoning behind this "vendetta" against the points system. Let's be brutally honest here: back in the PW1 days we had a time where we had a full division 1, full division 2, full division 3 and partly filled division 4. Right now we barely have a half division 3. To give some more numbers: in the last 24 hours we've had 83 active members, 101 in the last 7 days. 7 new members in the last 7, and 11 in the last 30. This tells me that the game won't keep sticking around for 5 more years if it continues like this.

Yes, some of the changes I did (back then and later in PW2) and the server crash were completely my fault or not always the best changes. Online management games have changed, and the most popular games are the instant games that give you a daily update. I'm not willing to go down the daily race path (at least not for Pitwall), so I'm trying to find other means to attract people. There are a lot of teams out there that have been created and then people had to wait to see improvements and just stop playing. Am I 100% sure that they stopped because of needing to wait? No, but seeing some of those teams I do get that feeling that it's because of that reason. What I propose to counter that is a system that allows me to create extra strategies as the points update allows for lots of new multiplicators to be added to your income (dev, financial, mec, ...) streams. Those multiplicators would never be so transparant in the current system. Therefore I feel that the points system is the way forward.

People have been against this for day 1 even though many (but not everyone) had never tried it out or tried out a sort of working version (which to be honest is still not ready - I started the beta way too early). I understand that people might be against this as they would prefer to get other improvements that I promised first. There are a few of them coming, but some I give higher priority than others. This update is something which is very visible, which I think an updated racescript is not (as that requires you to really know the game) - which does not mean that it's low priority, just lower. I do rate an updated responsive layout higher than a brand new racescript as well for example. So the race script to me is on place 3.

What I'm trying to say is that everyone's priorities are different. I'm totally open to feedback, and we'll test the points system big time before implementing it. If when it's completely done people don't like it, I'll have a look at whether it's still a good idea. But for now I want to give it an honest chance and so should everyone.

And to end: a lot of people quite often take the word "bug" in their mouth way too quickly (no offense - you can't know). But a lot of bugs that are reported are either: a) meant to be like that; b) are not good enough by design. For example the overtaking bug. The overtaking code of the racescript has not been changed since PW1. All of a sudden there was an overtaking bug. But this bug came forward out of other changes in the game. Driver ratings were not as high as before, the car ratings were not that high as before due to the rulebook limitation, it got harder to make a good speed difference and therefore it became harder to overtake.

I started a new team in parallel (multi account cheating!!!) to run a user story from scratch

before I got to start I had to find the game first - 3rd page on google search
"race team manager game online"

Facebook registration does not work

I was not in full screen mode and the menu was broken...


the tutorial helps until the big question - personal - the tutorial references to the help (links in the tutorial would help to get there faster)
the help does not help at all and contain outdated information - e.g. Levels
for a new user this is extremely frustrating - big drop out point to look for stuff that does not exist when you can not know that you are looking for not existing settings

before hiring staff it would be better to build a hq1 - it would be better if a new team just has a hq1

the job market place contains alot of weird names - incorrect codec in names, stupid names containing spam - this must be fixed in the db URGENTLY - it is not a "big deal" from point of usability but does not build confidence in the game

I know I have my share in the way it is, but there is to less information about staff/drivers - useful information. A new manager has no chance to separate terrible and decent persons.
my suggestion - all ratings should be visible on the /3 level - for more detailed information you need to scout the person ( /5 and /10 level)

(besides, the ranking are strongly influenced by the overall performance of a team, even weaker persons get decent ranking when the team delivers performance)

personality - what to say, awesome concept, far to deep for a game - maybe I am to dump, but I do not get how it works I just know that I mess it up AS AN EXPERIENCED MANAGER - no idea how this aspect of the game feels for a newbie who does not even have less than a clue what this is about
Morale - what? same as personality

contract negotiations are good - it is unclear why some persons sign immediately others need some days until they sign - not sure which way it should be, but I would recommend that signing is very fast for new teams ,with the risk of making bad deals, but the chance to keep going without waiting several days before the manager can continue with the game

thats all I can do for now - commercial manager and mechanic need some day to decide if the sign or not
all I could do at this moment is do some designs which are immediate

the research limits are strange cause the limits are lower than the actual rating - not sure if I should do research, how many percent I need .. whatever - I started a project without research 100% and test bed testing and 0 designers... (not sure if this should be possible)
and wait for 0 seconds, nothing happens
So I click finish, skip testing and have a super heavy chassis - forunatley I do not know how bad this chassis is - and I am would be terrified cause the default settings are English system

Minimum chassis weight
400 kg

Weight
1025.4 lb

just a detail - but why is the English setting default?

when I try to think of an impression of the development system I would say it is overwhelming and not easy to understand
research, design, test bed testing, loopholes
many options but not much a new manager can do
1. to have a better research limit than level the team would need a superb or some decent designers so research does not make sense
2. design is done instantly, click an done (kind of)
3. loopholes would be an option, but it would not make sense cause of the poor quality the car has to have - something a new manager will not know
so the designer do another new design, or worse build an evolutionary design on a car that has no known potential (without knowing they are doings something... bad)

at this point in time I am tired of reading tutorial and lost interest

maybe I continue later, or not

some productive feedback - reading is not the strength of the 21st century so the tutorial should be shorter and more interactive

the amount of options is awesome, but far to much for a new manager

It would be great if we could reduce that for the lowest division

The idea of A and B spec car would be great, at least for the lowest div, that would reduce the amount of parts you have to create

default research level should be the level the designer(s) can do - not "very bad" - the one I hired can do Awful...

more, but not all info about skills of person (as stated above)

immediate sign of persons in the first negotiations

I now remember another big struggle I had: I didnt get current research level and research limit at all. It was just confusing, so 2 sentences explanation in the tutorial would be great. I was lucky to have Philip to explain it.

And yeah, it is really confusing that the researchlevel starts at 3 even though your limit is 1. I would get rid of that, as it was very very confusing.


Another idea: Why not implement a question mark icon next to some key words (current research level, research limit, sponsors, ect) and when you hover over them, you get 2-4 sentences of explanation. That way you dont have to read all the help page and still get a quick idea.

This is simply why we have hardly any new players. The game is still great but only to those who understand where it has come from and trust in Frank to deliver more. As a new player it is simply put 'shit first impression' and that's as far as they give it. Remember those GPM2 and Grand prix world were last century! The new players today have not even played a decent sports managment game for F1

spending more time and thoughts on my suggestions are


- eliminate tiny, but ugly issues as facebook registration, broken or bad names, research level is higher than the potential, better catcha
- make some skills for person visible at a low level
- make the game easier on dev by letting teams by low rated parts, except those which has to be designed by the team - this can be defined in the rule book for the season

points or time based dev. is not a major question, I doubt that new players stop cause of this since they get immediate designs and parts anyways

#1 by Frank Van Laere
Yes, some of the changes I did (back then and later in PW2) and the server crash were completely my fault or not always the best changes. Online management games have changed, and the most popular games are the instant games that give you a daily update. I'm not willing to go down the daily race path (at least not for Pitwall), so I'm trying to find other means to attract people. There are a lot of teams out there that have been created and then people had to wait to see improvements and just stop playing. Am I 100% sure that they stopped because of needing to wait? No, but seeing some of those teams I do get that feeling that it's because of that reason. What I propose to counter that is a system that allows me to create extra strategies as the points update allows for lots of new multiplicators to be added to your income (dev, financial, mec, ...) streams. Those multiplicators would never be so transparant in the current system. Therefore I feel that the points system is the way forward.

The problem is not the waiting, nor will the waiting issue be fixed with a points update (actually be worse in my experience). Most people who discover the game may have a look around what they can before joining, others will just sign up then look. The first impression you get from the game is the most important as if the person doesn't get hooked straight away, then they won't come back. One of the main points of a Grand Prix game is the racing and that is what everyone wants to do. Having a race every day or every 2 days is not healthy as it gets too repetitive and sucks the life out, so what about, as part of the tutorial, allowing the new user to qualify and/or race. As with most games, there will always be a low retention rate. You need to get a lot of people looking at the game to get the amount of people you need to play it.

#1 by Frank Van Laere
People have been against this for day 1 even though many (but not everyone) had never tried it out or tried out a sort of working version (which to be honest is still not ready - I started the beta way too early). I understand that people might be against this as they would prefer to get other improvements that I promised first. There are a few of them coming, but some I give higher priority than others. This update is something which is very visible, which I think an updated racescript is not (as that requires you to really know the game) - which does not mean that it's low priority, just lower. I do rate an updated responsive layout higher than a brand new racescript as well for example. So the race script to me is on place 3.

I'm one of those that has been against it since you first announced it. Not because I rate other areas higher in the list to be improved but because when reading through the information you gave us, I noticed several big problems that for me kills the essence of the game. In playing the BETA, I still feel the same way and noticed a few other issues. All we have got to go on is what info you give and the info we gather from the BETA. If there is other info that is missing, then we can't judge the game using it and can only judge it on what we have been told. None of us want you to waste your time on something that from the outset doesn't look good which is why people have voiced their concerns. If we didn't care, we wouldn't say anything. For me, the racescript and race page for that matter is an important area. At the moment, I can't watch the races live because it is so hard to follow with the synchronisation issues. I read the chat afterwards and others have the same issue. Ultimately, it would be great to have a 2D map of the cars going around the track (something that will get people to come and stay as visualisation has a massive influence on this) but for now, a lot of us would accept just fixing the issues. The racing side is why we are all here, so this is the area that should be up to scratch.

Reading through what Phil has experienced shows the problems for new users on the site. Until these are fixed, you will have a higher percentage of people not sticking with the game. Even a points system or racescript can't reduce it. If it's not addressed for many more months then you will continue to leak more and more people who otherwise would have gotten into the game.

#2 by Philip E.
personality - what to say, awesome concept, far to deep for a game - maybe I am to dump, but I do not get how it works I just know that I mess it up AS AN EXPERIENCED MANAGER - no idea how this aspect of the game feels for a newbie who does not even have less than a clue what this is about
Morale - what? same as personality

Neither do I. I just sign people like I used to do and if it works, then great, if not then so be it. It's too difficult to understand how it all works and to get the team right.