Forum topic: Whats going on with based on development for season 10 Frank?

You would just limit the actual value of the superb part to that of a good part so it couldn't go over that maximum value.

However, I thought there was going to be a button that you could push to make any illegal parts drop in rating to become legal?

I don't have an issue with the based on not working for a different season though as it stops one team running away with things when they get the initial advantage. In Div 1, we have had teams win the championship in consecutive seasons between Season 2 and 8 (Bugatti 2&3, Matkor 4&5, Lotus 6-8) and that is because they got to the top and were able to keep there for a little bit until they lost staff or in the case of last season, we had the development change. Having a complete reset of the parts is beneficial to not having the same teams at the top all the time and to give those that are progressing upwards a chance of catching up/competing.

but then this game becomes like all the old games - esentially to win you have to hire Adrian Newey!

#32 by Daniel Stevens
but then this game becomes like all the old games - esentially to win you have to hire Adrian Newey!

Will it? I won Div 1 last season and I don't have the best designer. So many variables influence how well you do on track, the designer is only part of it. Besides, if what you said is true, it would be the same situation with based on parts. The best designers will always make the bigger increments. If based-on parts between seasons work, then all you will be doing is playing catch up for at least a year, if they don't, then you can be toward the front from the start.

So many variables influence how well you do on track, the designer is only part of it.

Fully agree with this statement. The design of the car actually only makes up a small percentage of how well your team does on the race track.

Remember you have the following that influence the performance on the track:
1. Driver
2. Suppliers Goods (change every season slightly)
3. Car development
4. Car weight (fuel as well)

I don't have an issue with the based on not working for a different season though as it stops one team running away with things when they get the initial advantage

Again I fully agree as it is more realistic that focus needs to change from season to season in the way of development. When most teams bases cars off previous season cars they are usually going backwards on the development front compared to other teams that took a more radical approach. Ferrari is a great example of that this season.

Adam - what dreamworld are you living in - your car was one of the best from the off! - essentially your design team did the best job in the off season when it was reset so everyone started at the same level. - last season was always going to be that way - but if it is like that every season then there is not much point to anything except the best design team (and contracts)

You would just limit the actual value of the superb part to that of a good part so it couldn't go over that maximum value.

That is what is happening in the code right now if the manager didn't select to allow the part to go over the legal value (and if an exploit wasn't found).

However, I thought there was going to be a button that you could push to make any illegal parts drop in rating to become legal?

Yes, it will be once illegal parts are allowed to be created (disabled by default in the code at the moment). At the moment it isn't yet as the disqualification code is not 100% working yet. I will be handling that when I update the youth series (so soon).

I don't have an issue with the based on not working for a different season though as it stops one team running away with things when they get the initial advantage. In Div 1, we have had teams win the championship in consecutive seasons between Season 2 and 8 (Bugatti 2&3, Matkor 4&5, Lotus 6-8) and that is because they got to the top and were able to keep there for a little bit until they lost staff or in the case of last season, we had the development change. Having a complete reset of the parts is beneficial to not having the same teams at the top all the time and to give those that are progressing upwards a chance of catching up/competing.

Yes, true. And that's also my intention. It should be possible to have domination by having teams base their parts on their success formulas. But that doesn't mean that it can't end by a rules mix up.

Right now we are in a situation where the based on for next season doesn't work yet for a variety of reasons, but it should work in the future seasons. The way it will work is that you can "base on" a part if the rule limit stays the same or if the allowed limit is increased. If the rules become more strict then you will have to re-create a part (which is actually the case this season, as all rules have become more strict except for steering, electrical and & diffuser).
I have it planned to update this in the coming weeks (on the beta server first).

but then this game becomes like all the old games - esentially to win you have to hire Adrian Newey!

That won't be enough But it is a step in the right direction of course.


In regards to the problem we're having (people who designed a based on which didn't work and had it automatically default back to brand new): I'm thinking of implementing the points system already for mechanics and designers in a faster pace than originally thought. But only for those two and only temporary (whereas the old system also works, but you can use the points to instant create plans and parts).

#35 by Daniel Stevens
Adam - what dreamworld are you living in

It's called reality.

#35 by Daniel Stevens
your car was one of the best from the off! - essentially your design team did the best job in the off season when it was reset so everyone started at the same level.

One of the best but it was never rated as the best. A few of my parts were better than anyone else but then I had parts that weren't as good as others. My design team didn't do the best job either else the car would have been rated the best. I did have the second best car at one point but usually it was 3rd and 4th. But my statement said that I didn't have the best designer and I didn't. Also I had the best package in the division which is why I won the title. If it was just development that plays a role, I wouldn't have won it.

#35 by Daniel Stevens
but if it is like that every season then there is not much point to anything except the best design team (and contracts)

Read what Robert wrote above and that isn't even an exhaustive list. One thing I can't get though is that you think it will only be teams with the best design teams that will win if it's all reset but the same thing can be said if you have based on parts because once you reach the top end with designs, it's easy to stay there even with a poor design team so all the other teams can do is close up but they won't fully catch up due to the minimal increases at the end. With rule resets and based on parts not working, it gives everyone a level playing field to start from so you are nor always having to play catch up if things didn't go right first off. It was the problem with PW1 and the relative development system. It was easy to close up but once you were close, it was extremely difficult to make that final step, hence why one team won about 15 championships in a row.

Thanks for the explanation Frank.

I disagree with this bit:

If the rules become more strict then you will have to re-create a part

Surely, when a rule changes, teams don't have to re-research that part from zero - they can just adapt their existing part to the new rules?

Wouldn't it be better to reduce the part rating to the new rule limit (maybe with a small 1-2 level penalty to reflect the fact that it won't be optimised for the new rules)?

Completely lost at the moment, from my understanding:-

The only part that allows for an increase in performance value from season 10 to 11 is the gearbox (the rest stay the same or drop).

Does that mean the gearbox would be available to base upon season 10?

Do I have to research season 11 for the gearbox or will it just take potential from whats left of my season 10 part?

Ie do you have to max the next seasons research every year for the whole car regardless of "new" or "based on parts".

I forgot to add:-

How does loophole research fit into this, if you have a loophole that allows higher does that mean you can now base on old parts?

Whilst on loophole research, I have made a bug report and pm Frank, loophole research for me massively over charges, it routinely will charge a day what it quotes for the week.